11psiGSR............quick questions(sorry didn't s

[hopen_luder]

I am not arguing that you should tune and learn to tune. What I am asking is for the past 6 months not one soul who has a Endyne mod has quoted numbers. You are correct to say that dyno's might not mean much, but stating 305 at the crank, but not stating at the wheels is not right. Dyno numbers do come into play to see how and when the power is being supplied in a real world number - the whp and torque. You still need those real numbers to get you down the road fast - be it a 1/4 mile or road course or a straight line for 10 miles!

Not knocking the guy for the work if it is real. It sounds like he helps a few. But there is some real darkness to the knowledge and product that he is dispensing. If we are all searching for the truth and looking for better performance, then we know we are not going to get it with out work. Prove your knowledge as best you can on a forum like this. That equals numbers and stats.

[ChargdTegra]

I just was wondering if the Thompson Intake tube can be purchased from Larry to be shipped and istalled myself? Also how much does it run for? Thanks

[Ubermensch]

11psiGSR already posted a crank dyno of the engine (do a search if you didn't see it). When he gets to it I'm sure he'll post his dyno with the engine installed as well. Patience...

[This message has been edited by Ubermensch (edited January 24, 2001).]

[11psiGSR]

As my sig states, crank HP was dyno'd at 345@7000 rpm, which by the way was not at peak (the motor was not fully broken in at the time, 7k was as high as Larry would take it till we felt comfortable the rings had seated). With the typical 12% driveline loss, that should put me at about 304hp at the wheels, without nitrous.

I will post chassis dyno #'s as soon as our tuning sessions have been completed.

Hopen_luder: It is certainly apparent you have never talked to Larry before. It gets really old seeing people that criticize Larry for thinking "outside the box". Just think, if Honda had not done so, we may have never had VTEC.

I wish those of you who are that skeptical of ENDYN would just leave this alone, this industry is full of opinions, most of them are not justified with anything other than skeptisism.

This board is not here to flame people and there ideals, this board is here because we all share 1 common goal.... We want to go as fast as we can, with only 4 cylinders. Some of us do things differently than others, that does not make that person wrong, stupid or otherwise. We should not critcize people who think differently.... Don't you think people thought Oscar Jackson was crazy for trying to build a Honda motor 15 years ago?

Allan

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95 GSR (B18C1)
ENDYN modified JRSC @ 15lbs, 70 shot NOS, ENDYN pistons, ENDYN rods, ENDYN modified crank, ENDYN ported and polished head, ENDYN valves, valve springs and retainers, Kamikazee Header, Thompson Intake tube, Brospeed Exhuast, Unorthodox Cam Gears, RC 370cc injectors, Bosch (ENDYN modified) fuel pump, STR rail, Hyper R, Moroso oil pan, Moroso catch can, J&S SafeGuard, MSD6BTM, Blaster coil, MSD Cap, ES mounts, ES tranny bushings, ClutchMasters Stage 4, ClutchMasters Aluminum Flywheel, Baer 13" brakes (front), Baer modified rear rotors, Stainless lines, M/T slicks for the track, blah, blah, blah.....

345hp @ 7000 (crank hp) w/o NOS

[hooper]

Hey 11psiGSR,
I'd like to pick your brain about some of the "basic" set-up tips Larry gave you. I just want to get an idea of where you started from. I hate to call him and take up his time (even though I know he's happy to give it).
I know some of it will be different for my little D, but... I want to compare yours to what I'm doing.
Anyway,
Baseline timing-
btm settings-
Fuel pressures (0 vac & max/wot)-
hyper r settings-

E-mail me if you [email protected]

Thanks
Phil

[rjaffey]

I think it would be great if you guys had that discussion on the board. I'm sure everyone would benefit.

[pest]

I 2nd that.

Learning how to tune your car off the dyno will help:

- take manhours away going to dyno
- better sense of car's operation
- having a better starting point for troubleshooting if something goes wrong
- Overall... knowledge that is priceless

Hooper and 11psigsr... thanx for helping us out on this. If anyone else has any info on tuning the car off dyno... then by all means post it up.

Thank you,

Pete

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NC area Honda/Acura List

[hopen_luder]

11psiGSR...I think you are misunderstanding. As you get tired of people beating on Larry, I and I think others are very skeptical of his and others claims. You are the first person to actually release numbers, which is very, very cool. Previous to you not a single soul who has worked with Endyne has ever quoted dyno numbers, performce (1/4, accel,etc) or given his real thoughts about it.

Yeah Larry may have knowledge out side of the box, but with out any proof people start to discount the hype.

[hooper]

It's not that difficult, really. It just takes time. You'll need a G-tech, or some other accelerometer, and a freind to take notes. A J&S is a must, A/F guage, in-car FP guage, in-car boost guage (not mandatory),BTM or BTC, fuel/VTEC controller, if you've got it.
Take the tools you'll need to adjust timing and fuel pressure. The tuning is done in the same way as on the dyno, except "time" might be a better indicator of progress, than "hp". Peak hp readings on a g-tech (or dyno, for that matter) aren't as important as say, 0-60 or 1/4 mile, to me anyway. You're tuning to make it faster/quicker, right? I have used HP before and it works ok too. You just end up going way too fast at the top of 4th, to get a max hp reading. And that's too fast to do on the streets repeatedly.
Anyway, make a chart, including baseline timing, BTM/BTC settings, idle FP, 0 vac FP, and WOT FP, and fuel/VTEC controller settings, and a place to list run results.
Each run, have the person write down the stuff you can't, while it's happening (guage readings,etc) and log the G-tech results. Then tune to try and get better results, making notes of the changes each time. Alot of it is seat of the pants too. Feel for bogging, hestitations, "hick-ups" and take notes as to where/when they happen (in the rpms and gears). Make small adjustments at a time. Making changes to take care of problems you encounter in certain rpm areas.
Got adjustable cam gears? Do them too, and make notes as to cam gear settings as well. Like I said, it takes time. But you do learn alot more by doing it this way. Plus it saves money spent for dyno time (sorry Holden).
This is the way i've always done my tuning. Some of you guys who do this professionally, like Jim and atomic, may disagree, or not, but there's no one else here to rely on but myself, and info gathered here and from others. Larry is a huge help as well.
I'm in the middle of re-adjusting everything around the new Cartech FMU. My problem is that I don't spend enough time all at once tuning. I end up doing it in the evenings, after work, and spend a couple hours here and there, and am never "really" finished. Also, after several runs in a row, I just don't want to keep beating up on my car.
Anyhow, make your own conclusions...
Phil

[hooper]

I hate to beat this dead horse, but I spent some quality time last night tuning, and really made some progress. I won't try to dazzle you with numbers, because they aren't kickass fast, but the difference from start to finish is quite extreme.
Using the same technique I described above, I trimmed more than a second off my (G-tech) 1/4 mile. I started with 16.6@91 mph and ended with [email protected] mph. I know I didn't endorse the hp method too much, but I did it too, and started with 173 and ended with 187. So, you can do it yourself.
I would like to add a couple of things. I realize the 1/4 mile times seem a bit slow when compared to the hp #, but I am still working on launches, and all of first gear is basically 1/2 to 3/4 throttle to try to keep wheel spin away.
I haven't gotten to adjusting the cam gear yet, and will continue working on launches in the next few days.
Again, make your own conclusions...
Phil